Question:
Personally I this silly. I drove Mercs with manual shift years ago and had no problem getting underway on a hill without faffing around with heel-and-toe, despite the hand-operated parking brake release. (And I don’t think I have superquick reactions or superflexible ankles.) DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t get it… > [snip} > Heel and toe gas and brake, release clutch to drive off. > Cars which force you to use Heel and toe for proper operation - are you > kidding? > Frank > -- > please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact > Citroen - Made in Trance
Response:
> if you can't effective manage the clutch with > control and precision, then you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel > of a 400 HP manual tranny CTS-V.
I can manage the clutch with control and precision on a 450 HP 8x8 Iveco Tipper Truck with 16 speed ZF Ecosplit gearbox and 16 tons of gravel on top in heavy terrain if you like that. And using the clutch to prevent a car from rolling back at a steep hill is a very good way to kill it. Frank -- please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance
Response:
> if you can't effective manage the clutch with > control and precision, then you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel > of a 400 HP manual tranny CTS-V. > I can manage the clutch with control and precision on a 450 HP 8x8 Iveco > Tipper Truck with 16 speed ZF Ecosplit gearbox and 16 tons of gravel on top > in heavy terrain if you like that. And using the clutch to prevent a car > from rolling back at a steep hill is a very good way to kill it.
The pedal between the gas and clutch will stop your car from rolling back if you press on it. And in but a few older BMWs you can concurrently work the clutch and gas pedal while braking the car. And if you kill the engine because of the way you use the clutch, then I have to again ask if you are certain you can use a clutch with control and precision. I don't mean this to become a criticism of your driving ability, but rather and opportunity for you to understand that whatever your personal driving ability/experience is, many people don't need to engage the parking brake to facilitate forward motion in their cars on a hill. And I would suggest that driving enthusiasts, those who care about pedal placement in their car of choice, have a higher percentage of those who don't need that particular driving crutch.
Response:
> A foot operated park brake on a manual shift car is a PITA. When you want > to start at a steep hill, you need your two feet for accelerator and > clutch, and you do not have a 3rd foot for the footbrake. This is extremely > sh*tty, when you have to start and slowly drive for some yards and then > stop again. Just imagine fiddeling such a car in and out of a parking gap > in San Francisco;-)
Frank, that is absolutely hilarious. My 16 year old daughter, and her 23 years old sister, and their 24 year old mother :^) drives a manual tranny automobile and doesn't use the handbrake to move her car from a standstill up a steep hill. Ever. She instead use the brake, clutch and gas....just like most Americans did before our cars moved to handbrake. Caddie is probably more than right in their choice of parking brake (though I doubt it was their intent): if you can't effective manage the clutch with control and precision, then you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel of a 400 HP manual tranny CTS-V.
Response:
> I would definitely not buy a manual stick car if there was no > handbrake, but a footbrake instead!
Full ACK. I deliberately drive automatics, but I prefer a handbrake nevertheless. Frank -- please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance
Response:
Why not just get an automatic? Just kidding...:) I use the handbrake in extreme situation, such as parking on a very steep heel into a tight parking spot. Using the "heel and toe" technique would be more detrimental to the car, plus, not everyone has the skill... I would definitely not buy a manual stick car if there was no handbrake, but a footbrake instead!
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -> > I agree...how many of us use the handbrake for driving tricks? Yeah, if > I > > was that kind of driver it would matter but given advances in traction > > control I don't need it for slippery conditions and I don't need it for > > pulling movie star 360's on Colfax Avenue. > A foot operated park brake on a manual shift car is a PITA. When you want > to start at a steep hill, you need your two feet for accelerator and > clutch, and you do not have a 3rd foot for the footbrake. This is > extremely > sh*tty, when you have to start and slowly drive for some yards and then > stop again. Just imagine fiddeling such a car in and out of a parking gap > in San Francisco;-) > I don't get it... > Right foot on brake, shifter in Neutral > Release parking brake with left foot, or right hand as appropriate. > Clutch in left foot, shift to appropriate gear > Heel and toe gas and brake, release clutch to drive off. > I have never used my parking brake for anything but being parked. (except > for tricks in the snow when I was younger 
I couldn't care less if it > is > foot or hand operated. I take it you are using your handbrake during > parking manouvers? Why not use the car's brakes instead? > -Russ.
Response:
> I don't get it... [snip} > Heel and toe gas and brake, release clutch to drive off.
Cars which force you to use Heel and toe for proper operation - are you kidding? Frank -- please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen - Made in Trance
Response:
- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -> I agree...how many of us use the handbrake for driving tricks? Yeah, if I > was that kind of driver it would matter but given advances in traction > control I don't need it for slippery conditions and I don't need it for > pulling movie star 360's on Colfax Avenue. > A foot operated park brake on a manual shift car is a PITA. When you want > to start at a steep hill, you need your two feet for accelerator and > clutch, and you do not have a 3rd foot for the footbrake. This is extremely > sh*tty, when you have to start and slowly drive for some yards and then > stop again. Just imagine fiddeling such a car in and out of a parking gap > in San Francisco;-)
I don't get it... Right foot on brake, shifter in Neutral Release parking brake with left foot, or right hand as appropriate. Clutch in left foot, shift to appropriate gear Heel and toe gas and brake, release clutch to drive off. I have never used my parking brake for anything but being parked. (except for tricks in the snow when I was younger I couldn't care less if it is foot or hand operated. I take it you are using your handbrake during parking manouvers? Why not use the car's brakes instead? -Russ.
Response:
> I agree...how many of us use the handbrake for driving tricks? Yeah, if I > was that kind of driver it would matter but given advances in traction > control I don't need it for slippery conditions and I don't need it for > pulling movie star 360's on Colfax Avenue.
Proper performance driving doesn't involve the handbrake... tricks do, rallying maybe, perhaps even autocross I don't know, but the type of road course, apex chopping moves that BMW's were bred for has nothing to do with the hand brake. In fact, with full time viscous AWD in my iX, I can't do any hand brake tricks anyway, even if I wanted to. They just don't work. A foot pedal would be fine by me. -Russ.
Response:
Performance??? http://showrooms.volkswagen.de/caddy/ 
DAS -- For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling ---
[...] > I think Caddy has as > good a shot as anyone. If they stick to the program they are going to sell > a > lot of cars based upon performance, luxury and content
[...]
Response:
> I agree…how many of us use the handbrake for driving tricks? Yeah, if I > was that kind of driver it would matter but given advances in traction > control I don’t need it for slippery conditions and I don’t need it for > pulling movie star 360’s on Colfax Avenue.
A foot operated park brake on a manual shift car is a PITA. When you want to start at a steep hill, you need your two feet for accelerator and clutch, and you do not have a 3rd foot for the footbrake. This is extremely sh*tty, when you have to start and slowly drive for some yards and then stop again. Just imagine fiddeling such a car in and out of a parking gap in San Francisco;-) Does anybody know a car which has a foot operated brake when ordered with auto trans and a handbrake when ordered with manual trans? Frank — please replace spam-muelleimer with fk-newsgroups for e-mail contact Citroen – Made in Trance
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BMW also target expensive SUV’s and both Lexus and Infiniti do as well. > The Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan are precisely targeted at the 3-series > market. Precisely. > I’m shocked you would mention Cadillac. How serious can Cadillac be if > they > mount a foot-operated parking brake in the manual-only CTS-V? Duh? GM is > still not really serious. Maybe some day. Maybe. > If you’ve been reading/watching reviews from people that don’t just pander > to the manufacturers, they’re just this side of shocked at how well > Caddillac has been doing in producing serious competitors in this market > space. Sure, you can write them off for a handbrake,
I agree…how many of us use the handbrake for driving tricks? Yeah, if I was that kind of driver it would matter but given advances in traction control I don’t need it for slippery conditions and I don’t need it for pulling movie star 360’s on Colfax Avenue. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> but they’re getting > very, very close, oftentimes at a substantial discount compared to the > Europeans. As are the Japanese for that matter. > -Russ.
Response:
> BMW also target expensive SUV’s and both Lexus and Infiniti do as well.
Sorry, I don’t know what you are getting at. > The Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan are precisely targeted at the 3-series > market. Precisely.
That’s true, but they do not strike a similar balance between luxury and performance across their entire lineup of sedans/coupes. So it is a fruitless exercise to compare LS sales with the 7 series, or GS sales with the 5. > I’m shocked you would mention Cadillac.
In a matter of one model they have come quite close to BMW in performance and luxury. Their new models are very good automobiles and despite Audis claims to being the maker who will steal BMW’s thunder, I think Caddy has as good a shot as anyone. If they stick to the program they are going to sell a lot of cars based upon performance, luxury and content….not to mention price and loyalty. > How serious can Cadillac be if they > mount a foot-operated parking brake in the manual-only CTS-V? Duh?
Shit, I’d much rather have a footbrake or button brake than a lever mucking up the console space. I’ve never thought a hand lever around the console area was a good move. Cheap move maybe, but not a good one. I don’t know what your gripe is or what it has to do with performance and luxury. > GM is > still not really serious. Maybe some day. Maybe.
Caddy is deadly serious and it is evident in the driving. If you didn’t notice or realize it when you took you drives in the CTS then I don’t know what to say. Those are good cars. I was extremely impresssed with the V8 CTS. It is a fine automobile in a number of ways that matter to me..a 5 series owner and driver for more years than I care to remember. It isn’t an E60, but it is very close to an E39. In fact I think the CTS V8 drives better than the 540, thought the E39 530 is still the better 6 cylinder automobile. Once you decide to forsake and alienate your traditional market (56 years old +) in exchange for more dynamic automobiles no one can claim you aren’t serious. Caddy has taken a bold step…and they have designed and built bold cars.
Response:
> BMW also target expensive SUV’s and both Lexus and Infiniti do as well. > The Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan are precisely targeted at the 3-series > market. Precisely. > I’m shocked you would mention Cadillac. How serious can Cadillac be if they > mount a foot-operated parking brake in the manual-only CTS-V? Duh? GM is > still not really serious. Maybe some day. Maybe.
If you’ve been reading/watching reviews from people that don’t just pander to the manufacturers, they’re just this side of shocked at how well Caddillac has been doing in producing serious competitors in this market space. Sure, you can write them off for a handbrake, but they’re getting very, very close, oftentimes at a substantial discount compared to the Europeans. As are the Japanese for that matter. -Russ.
Response:
BMW also target expensive SUV’s and both Lexus and Infiniti do as well. The Infiniti G35 coupe and sedan are precisely targeted at the 3-series market. Precisely. I’m shocked you would mention Cadillac. How serious can Cadillac be if they mount a foot-operated parking brake in the manual-only CTS-V? Duh? GM is still not really serious. Maybe some day. Maybe. George Litwinski
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How about comparison with Lexus? Or Infiniti? > I don’t see Lexus or Infiniti targeting similar balance between performance > and luxury in the way the German makes are, so I don’t see the relevance in > comaring sales figures with the Japanese makes. Though Caddy might have been > a good one to include, despite the great disparity in selling price. > The bottom line is that in a very competitive and decidedly "down" market > BMW is doing quiet well, indeed record well, with both it new models and > it’s older ones. I like seeing that. > George Litwinski > > In it’s last year the 3 series is down about 4% year to date. In terms > of > > market performance…what a product! The A4 is down 10% year to date and > the > > C Class is down 3% but selling far fewer units that the E46. > > The 5 is doing great and appears be the second best 5 series year (2003 > E39 > > being the best) ever, and despite having two full months to go is > already > > better than the first full year of E39 sales. The E-Class still outsells > > everybody in this segment in the US. They are down for the month but up > for > > the year. The A6 is way off track and down 20% year to date. > > 7 sales are down 19% for YTD but so is the market. Merc S Class sales > are > > down 37% for the month and 12% for the year. By comparison Audi sells > very > > few A8’s..but their numbers are up about 68% 2004 vs. 2003. > > Z4’s are off 2003 numbers by 23%, But so is everyone else’s roadster > > numbers. There may be too much competition for the market levels. By > > comparison Boxster numbers are off by 37% for 2004 vs. 2003. TT’s off > 31%, > > SLK’s off 17%. > > Production must have ramped up for the 6 because like the 5 those sales > > numbers are growing. > > 2004 X5/X3 combo has outdone the 2003 X5 numbers by 23,000+ year to date > . > > And given the sales figures for the sedans it sure doesn’t seem like > many > of > > those buyers were cannibalized from the 3 and 5 series cars. No one else > > comes close to BMW in success with an SUV, but Porsche is selling the > living > > crap out of the Cayenne. > > If my math is worth a shit BMW is having their best year ever and > outselling > > Merc in the US. Despite all the commotion over design and i-drive BMW is > > doing great. And where BMW is suffering unit sales losses in certain > > segments, so are their competitors, which seems to indicate it is the > > market, rather than anyone’s particular offering, that is dictating the > > those reduced sales. > > Despite bad press about design and almost constant criticism in forums > like > > this, BMW can only be happy about their performance this year and > > particularly ecstatic about their performance compared to competitors in > > various market segments that are suffering across the board. > > Unlike some of the posters on this ng, I am really happy to see BMW > selling > > cars and pumping money. > > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.008/bmw/1.html
http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.005/porsche/1.html http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041104.001/mercedes/1.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.006/Audi/1.html > > http://www.e60.net/information/ click "US Unit Sales"
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I drove a 1997 328i auto, and was underwhelmed. But driving a heavier 1997 > 528i 5-speed was *way* more fun. It felt faster and more lively but a wide > margin. I don’t even care what the numbers were, but the driving experience > was transformed by the manual. > Now go drive the 5 speed in a few hours of stop and go city traffic. > Repeat 5 days a week for 50 weeks a year, then tell me which you would > choose. > I am a fan of standard transmissions in "fun" cars too. Most of my cars > have them (Z3, 325i, Wrangler). But my 540i (which I bought with the > express purpose of driving in and out of city traffic) and my Ford > Exploder (whose purpose in life is pulling trailers) have slush boxes > because that is what makes sense for their intended uses. > If I could only have one car, and if I was commuting or driving > regularly in a major metropolitan area, I would go for a "sluggish" > automatic any day.
I’ve done the congested city commute enough times to admit that if that was my daily life, I would be forced into an automatic. Begrudgingly. Your Exploder slushie choice is appropriate too. I just remain surprised that more people don’t opt for manual in BMWNA land, because the difference in driving experience for enthusiastic driving is immense. Many people that love their autos have literally never driven a manual long enough to get good at it and really appreciate it. But if you’re forced into an auto, a Bimmer is the best auto to buy. :-) -Russ.
Response:
Exactly! DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —
[...] > We are out of touch with their mass market. We represent > a small niche that they can safely afford to ignore…
[...]
Response:
> I drove a 1997 328i auto, and was underwhelmed. But driving a heavier 1997 > 528i 5-speed was *way* more fun. It felt faster and more lively but a wide > margin. I don’t even care what the numbers were, but the driving experience > was transformed by the manual.
Now go drive the 5 speed in a few hours of stop and go city traffic. Repeat 5 days a week for 50 weeks a year, then tell me which you would choose. I am a fan of standard transmissions in "fun" cars too. Most of my cars have them (Z3, 325i, Wrangler). But my 540i (which I bought with the express purpose of driving in and out of city traffic) and my Ford Exploder (whose purpose in life is pulling trailers) have slush boxes because that is what makes sense for their intended uses. If I could only have one car, and if I was commuting or driving regularly in a major metropolitan area, I would go for a "sluggish" automatic any day. -Fred W
Response:
THAT is LA-speak. Very few (I daren’t say "nobody") in RoW would think 2.5 litres as "underpowered" in a 3! DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —
[...] > sold and the overwhelming preponderance of automatic cars sold here. The > 2.5 > L 3-series is seriously under-powered (test drove one this summer with a
[...]
Response:
> How about comparison with Lexus? Or Infiniti?
I don’t see Lexus or Infiniti targeting similar balance between performance and luxury in the way the German makes are, so I don’t see the relevance in comaring sales figures with the Japanese makes. Though Caddy might have been a good one to include, despite the great disparity in selling price. The bottom line is that in a very competitive and decidedly "down" market BMW is doing quiet well, indeed record well, with both it new models and it’s older ones. I like seeing that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> George Litwinski > In it’s last year the 3 series is down about 4% year to date. In terms of > market performance…what a product! The A4 is down 10% year to date and > the > C Class is down 3% but selling far fewer units that the E46. > The 5 is doing great and appears be the second best 5 series year (2003 > E39 > being the best) ever, and despite having two full months to go is already > better than the first full year of E39 sales. The E-Class still outsells > everybody in this segment in the US. They are down for the month but up > for > the year. The A6 is way off track and down 20% year to date. > 7 sales are down 19% for YTD but so is the market. Merc S Class sales are > down 37% for the month and 12% for the year. By comparison Audi sells very > few A8’s..but their numbers are up about 68% 2004 vs. 2003. > Z4’s are off 2003 numbers by 23%, But so is everyone else’s roadster > numbers. There may be too much competition for the market levels. By > comparison Boxster numbers are off by 37% for 2004 vs. 2003. TT’s off 31%, > SLK’s off 17%. > Production must have ramped up for the 6 because like the 5 those sales > numbers are growing. > 2004 X5/X3 combo has outdone the 2003 X5 numbers by 23,000+ year to date . > And given the sales figures for the sedans it sure doesn’t seem like many > of > those buyers were cannibalized from the 3 and 5 series cars. No one else > comes close to BMW in success with an SUV, but Porsche is selling the > living > crap out of the Cayenne. > If my math is worth a shit BMW is having their best year ever and > outselling > Merc in the US. Despite all the commotion over design and i-drive BMW is > doing great. And where BMW is suffering unit sales losses in certain > segments, so are their competitors, which seems to indicate it is the > market, rather than anyone’s particular offering, that is dictating the > those reduced sales. > Despite bad press about design and almost constant criticism in forums > like > this, BMW can only be happy about their performance this year and > particularly ecstatic about their performance compared to competitors in > various market segments that are suffering across the board. > Unlike some of the posters on this ng, I am really happy to see BMW > selling > cars and pumping money. > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.008/bmw/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.005/porsche/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041104.001/mercedes/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.006/Audi/1.html > http://www.e60.net/information/ click "US Unit Sales"
Response:
> automatics in supposed BMW sporting machinery, so no more here on that —
I I drove a 1997 328i auto, and was underwhelmed. But driving a heavier 1997 528i 5-speed was *way* more fun. It felt faster and more lively but a wide margin. I don’t even care what the numbers were, but the driving experience was transformed by the manual. -Russ.
Response:
People who frequent this news group are not your typical BMW heads. They are car enthusiasts with a particular liking for Bimmers. I think a large part of the audience for BMW’s in this country (USA) are people who view a BMW as a respectable Buick and really don’t care all that much about the driving experience as impacted by, for example, cryptic controls…or questionable styling. (Who do you think they screwed up the steering effort for in 2001 3-series?) If it has the spinning propeller blades on it somewhere, the two kidneys grill, and a sufficiently high price tag to make it "exclusive", that’s good enough. If it’s a new model, so much the better. Evidence is the large number of 2.5 L 3-series and 5-series cars sold and the overwhelming preponderance of automatic cars sold here. The 2.5 L 3-series is seriously under-powered (test drove one this summer with a manual and words escape me as to how under-whelmed I was, the 5-series has to be worse), yet it is the 3-series bread and butter version. I already got flamed to the moon for my comments on what I think about the concept of automatics in supposed BMW sporting machinery, so no more here on that — I was right, though. Anyway, as such, what the consensus is about Bangle styling is irrelevant to sales of BMW cars. We are out of touch with their mass market. We represent a small niche that they can safely afford to ignore…and will. Let’s face it, ugly or not, what else will you buy once you have a BMW Jones? GRL
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In it’s last year the 3 series is down about 4% year to date. In terms of > market performance…what a product! The A4 is down 10% year to date and the > C Class is down 3% but selling far fewer units that the E46. > The 5 is doing great and appears be the second best 5 series year (2003 E39 > being the best) ever, and despite having two full months to go is already > better than the first full year of E39 sales. The E-Class still outsells > everybody in this segment in the US. They are down for the month but up for > the year. The A6 is way off track and down 20% year to date. > 7 sales are down 19% for YTD but so is the market. Merc S Class sales are > down 37% for the month and 12% for the year. By comparison Audi sells very > few A8’s..but their numbers are up about 68% 2004 vs. 2003. > Z4’s are off 2003 numbers by 23%, But so is everyone else’s roadster > numbers. There may be too much competition for the market levels. By > comparison Boxster numbers are off by 37% for 2004 vs. 2003. TT’s off 31%, > SLK’s off 17%. > Production must have ramped up for the 6 because like the 5 those sales > numbers are growing. > 2004 X5/X3 combo has outdone the 2003 X5 numbers by 23,000+ year to date. > And given the sales figures for the sedans it sure doesn’t seem like many of > those buyers were cannibalized from the 3 and 5 series cars. No one else > comes close to BMW in success with an SUV, but Porsche is selling the living > crap out of the Cayenne. > If my math is worth a shit BMW is having their best year ever and outselling > Merc in the US. Despite all the commotion over design and i-drive BMW is > doing great. And where BMW is suffering unit sales losses in certain > segments, so are their competitors, which seems to indicate it is the > market, rather than anyone’s particular offering, that is dictating the > those reduced sales. > Despite bad press about design and almost constant criticism in forums like > this, BMW can only be happy about their performance this year and > particularly ecstatic about their performance compared to competitors in > various market segments that are suffering across the board. > Unlike some of the posters on this ng, I am really happy to see BMW selling > cars and pumping money. > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.008/bmw/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.005/porsche/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041104.001/mercedes/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.006/Audi/1.html > http://www.e60.net/information/ click "US Unit Sales"
Response:
Just for comparison it would be interesting to see the situation in Germany, where Merc sales are always greater than BMW’s overall, though different individual models fare differently. Unfortunately the source I have is still stuck in July: http://www.kfz-auskunft.de/kfz/pkw_neuzulassungen_juli_2004.html C just ahead of 3 E substantially over 5 But only the 5 has shown an increase over the same month in the previous year. DAS — For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling —
> In it’s last year the 3 series is down about 4% year to date. In terms of > market performance…what a product! The A4 is down 10% year to date and > the > C Class is down 3% but selling far fewer units that the E46. [...]> > Unlike some of the posters on this ng, I am really happy to see BMW > selling > cars and pumping money.
[...]
Response:
How about comparison with Lexus? Or Infiniti? George Litwinski
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In it’s last year the 3 series is down about 4% year to date. In terms of > market performance…what a product! The A4 is down 10% year to date and the > C Class is down 3% but selling far fewer units that the E46. > The 5 is doing great and appears be the second best 5 series year (2003 E39 > being the best) ever, and despite having two full months to go is already > better than the first full year of E39 sales. The E-Class still outsells > everybody in this segment in the US. They are down for the month but up for > the year. The A6 is way off track and down 20% year to date. > 7 sales are down 19% for YTD but so is the market. Merc S Class sales are > down 37% for the month and 12% for the year. By comparison Audi sells very > few A8’s..but their numbers are up about 68% 2004 vs. 2003. > Z4’s are off 2003 numbers by 23%, But so is everyone else’s roadster > numbers. There may be too much competition for the market levels. By > comparison Boxster numbers are off by 37% for 2004 vs. 2003. TT’s off 31%, > SLK’s off 17%. > Production must have ramped up for the 6 because like the 5 those sales > numbers are growing. > 2004 X5/X3 combo has outdone the 2003 X5 numbers by 23,000+ year to date. > And given the sales figures for the sedans it sure doesn’t seem like many of > those buyers were cannibalized from the 3 and 5 series cars. No one else > comes close to BMW in success with an SUV, but Porsche is selling the living > crap out of the Cayenne. > If my math is worth a shit BMW is having their best year ever and outselling > Merc in the US. Despite all the commotion over design and i-drive BMW is > doing great. And where BMW is suffering unit sales losses in certain > segments, so are their competitors, which seems to indicate it is the > market, rather than anyone’s particular offering, that is dictating the > those reduced sales. > Despite bad press about design and almost constant criticism in forums like > this, BMW can only be happy about their performance this year and > particularly ecstatic about their performance compared to competitors in > various market segments that are suffering across the board. > Unlike some of the posters on this ng, I am really happy to see BMW selling > cars and pumping money. > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.008/bmw/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.005/porsche/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041104.001/mercedes/1.html > http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.006/Audi/1.html > http://www.e60.net/information/ click "US Unit Sales"
Response:
In it’s last year the 3 series is down about 4% year to date. In terms of market performance…what a product! The A4 is down 10% year to date and the C Class is down 3% but selling far fewer units that the E46. The 5 is doing great and appears be the second best 5 series year (2003 E39 being the best) ever, and despite having two full months to go is already better than the first full year of E39 sales. The E-Class still outsells everybody in this segment in the US. They are down for the month but up for the year. The A6 is way off track and down 20% year to date. 7 sales are down 19% for YTD but so is the market. Merc S Class sales are down 37% for the month and 12% for the year. By comparison Audi sells very few A8’s..but their numbers are up about 68% 2004 vs. 2003. Z4’s are off 2003 numbers by 23%, But so is everyone else’s roadster numbers. There may be too much competition for the market levels. By comparison Boxster numbers are off by 37% for 2004 vs. 2003. TT’s off 31%, SLK’s off 17%. Production must have ramped up for the 6 because like the 5 those sales numbers are growing. 2004 X5/X3 combo has outdone the 2003 X5 numbers by 23,000+ year to date. And given the sales figures for the sedans it sure doesn’t seem like many of those buyers were cannibalized from the 3 and 5 series cars. No one else comes close to BMW in success with an SUV, but Porsche is selling the living crap out of the Cayenne. If my math is worth a shit BMW is having their best year ever and outselling Merc in the US. Despite all the commotion over design and i-drive BMW is doing great. And where BMW is suffering unit sales losses in certain segments, so are their competitors, which seems to indicate it is the market, rather than anyone’s particular offering, that is dictating the those reduced sales. Despite bad press about design and almost constant criticism in forums like this, BMW can only be happy about their performance this year and particularly ecstatic about their performance compared to competitors in various market segments that are suffering across the board. Unlike some of the posters on this ng, I am really happy to see BMW selling cars and pumping money. http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.008/bmw/1.html http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.005/porsche/1.html http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041104.001/mercedes/1.html http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2041103.006/Audi/1.html http://www.e60.net/information/ click "US Unit Sales"
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